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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">If the proposers want their files to be
accessible by other applications, the best they could do is to use
some of the mechanisms provided by HDF5 to use other formats like
external storage and/or Virtual File Drivers and Virtual File
Layer.<br>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://confluence.hdfgroup.org/display/HDF5/Virtual+File+Layer">https://confluence.hdfgroup.org/display/HDF5/Virtual+File+Layer</a><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">If they only care about their
applications, they do not need to ask anything :-)<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Cheers,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Armando<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/04/2022 19:16, Watts Benjamin
(PSI) via NeXus wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:480d239c798442afbf0e1ee78140b10f@psi.ch">
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<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper"
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dir="ltr">
<p>Hi Tobias,</p>
<p> I agree that we have spent the past decade recommending
HDF5, but at the same time we have been saying that NeXus is
about the organisation of data within the container, not the
container file format itself. I can see that you feel
surprised by the sudden discussion of other file formats, just
as I was surprised to hear the community talking about it at
the recent NFDI workshop. I am only advocating for discussion
and I would like to hear your input.
<span>I agree that multiple backends will introduce higher
support requirements that NeXus doesn't currently have
resources for.</span> Your preference for NeXus referring to
a (small) defined set of file formats is a valid view point
and I agree that there are practicalities to consider. I view
the next telco as just the restart of an old discussion and
nothing can really change until a proposal is brought to a
NIAC meeting (and accepted).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Ben<br>
</p>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Tobias
Richter <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Tobias.Richter@ess.eu"><Tobias.Richter@ess.eu></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 7 April 2022 6:23:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion forum for the NeXus data format;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nexus@nexusformat.org">nexus@nexusformat.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Watts Benjamin (PSI); Alexander Debus; Nicolas
Soler; Franz Pöschel; Emilio Centeno Ortiz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nexus] HDF5 as NeXus file format</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">According
to this discussion from a decade ago HDF5 is singled out
as the only preferred physical file format:
<a href="https://www.nexusformat.org/NIAC2012"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.nexusformat.org/NIAC2012</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#515151;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1;background:white">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"PT
Sans",sans-serif">NeXus guiding statements:<o:p></o:p></span>
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#515151;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo1;background:white">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"PT
Sans",sans-serif">The main focus of the NeXus
community is to further develop the dictionaries,
base classes and application definitions.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#515151;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo1;background:white">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"PT
Sans",sans-serif">The NIAC is a forum for
resolving issues.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#515151;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo1;background:white">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"PT
Sans",sans-serif">The NIAC acts as a custodian
for NeXus: definitions, examples, documentation,
reference implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#515151;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo1;background:white">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"PT
Sans",sans-serif">NeXus can be mapped to
different physical file formats:<o:p></o:p></span>
<ul type="square">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#515151;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level3 lfo1;background:white">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"PT
Sans",sans-serif">HDF5 is the preferred
physical file format.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#515151;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level3 lfo1;background:white">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"PT
Sans",sans-serif">NeXus-XML is the
currently supported ASCII file format.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Technically
you can map into different backends. Yes. XML is still
sort of supported. At the time it was requested that other
options would get the official blessing (YAML being
specifically asked for) but for practical exchange between
facilities the consensus was to stick with HDF5.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There
no longer is a recommended or fully maintained abstraction
layer (like NAPI) to do an on the fly translation between
backends. Who would be in charge of defining how the
“official” mapping into sqlite or whatever would look
like? How many backends can the community commit to
support in the long run?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">When
tools that are currently developed/supported/maintained to
“read” NeXus/HDF5 fail to work with what gets handed out,
we are in a worse situation than we are now. Note: What
facilities do internally for performance optimisations or
other reasons could be different, if it stays internal.
But I am clearly a lot less open minded about producing
non-HDF5 files with a “NeXus” label than Ben. Maybe I
missed some decisions that were taken lately in this
direction or we’re no longer interested in being able to
read each other’s files. Should either be the case, I’ll
be quiet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best
wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Tobias<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">NeXus
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nexus-bounces@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk"><nexus-bounces@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk></a> on behalf of
"Watts Benjamin (PSI) via NeXus"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nexus@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk"><nexus@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Reply to: </b>Discussion forum for the NeXus data
format <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nexus@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk"><nexus@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 17:10<br>
<b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nexus@nexusformat.org">"nexus@nexusformat.org"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nexus@nexusformat.org"><nexus@nexusformat.org></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Benjamin Watts
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:benjamin.watts@psi.ch"><benjamin.watts@psi.ch></a>, Alexander Debus
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:a.debus@hzdr.de"><a.debus@hzdr.de></a>, Nicolas Soler
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsoler@cells.es"><nsoler@cells.es></a>, Franz Pöschel
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:f.poeschel@hzdr.de"><f.poeschel@hzdr.de></a>, Emilio Centeno Ortiz
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ecenteno@cells.es"><ecenteno@cells.es></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Nexus] HDF5 as NeXus file format<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper">
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Hi Gabriel,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> NeXus is
officially not dependent on HDF5 and we are definitely
open minded about implementing the NeXus
<i>data format</i> on <i>file formats</i> other than
HDF5. We plan to discuss such issues at our
<a
href="https://www.nexusformat.org/Telco_20220426.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">next teleconference</a> on
April 26th and I invite you to join us. Are there
specific container file formats that you are interested
in?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-align:center"
align="center">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
<hr width="100%" size="0" align="center">
</span></div>
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span
style="color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="color:black"> NeXus
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nexus-bounces@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk"><nexus-bounces@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk></a> on behalf
of Gabriel Jover Manas via NeXus
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nexus@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk"><nexus@shadow.nd.rl.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 7 April 2022 4:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nexus@nexusformat.org">nexus@nexusformat.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Gabriel Jover Manas; Nicolas Soler;
Emilio Centeno Ortiz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Nexus] HDF5 as NeXus file format</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Dear NeXus
Users Community,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Last NFDI NeXus
Workshop was a great opportunity to meet the
community and learn from the experience of other
scientists and institutions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Here at ALBA we
are working on the integration of NeXus files in our
data analysis workflows.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">In this scope
we are interested on investigating alternatives to
hdf5 as NeXus file format, in terms of slice
read/write performance, read-write-many capabilities
and convenient reading.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Would the
community be open to decoupling the data format
(NeXus) from the file format (HDF5)?<br>
Is there already any effort in the community in this
direction?<br>
Is anyone else also interested?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Gabriel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
NeXus mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NeXus@nexusformat.org">NeXus@nexusformat.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.nexusformat.org/mailman/listinfo/nexus">https://lists.nexusformat.org/mailman/listinfo/nexus</a>
</pre>
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